Wednesday, August 11, 2010

READ AN EXCERPT: Chapter Twenty Eight ~ ON THE DEFENSE

One morning I was called into a very special meeting. I knew from the location that only the most elite members of the ashram would be present. I slipped into the confidential conference room that very few people knew about though it was just a few steps away from the room I shared with Helen. About twenty of the usual faces were gathered, sitting on the carpeted floor – secretaries, swamis, some department heads, people who just seemed, for whatever reason, to have won Gurumayi's favor over the years.

I noticed many of them had left colorful plastic sandals at the door. The sandals were pretty and good for the monsoon rains. Anything except plastic rotted and molded, never drying out. Gurumayi must have given the bright sandals out recently to some group in which I hadn't been included. Of course, no one mentioned them. They were just suddenly there, lined up at the door.

Katy Parsons welcomed us into the meeting and led us in the opening mantras. She had been around for a few years now, one of the most popular people in Siddha Yoga. Gurumayi seemed to love her and always wanted her around. And everyone else liked her too.

Katy was friendly to everyone, not just the elite. When she gave talks it sounded like a real person speaking. When Katy had first come to the ashram with her chubby, amiable husband and her seven-year-old daughter, her hair had been short and prematurely gray. She'd been some kind of non-profit executive out in the corporate world. Now she wore punjabis and her hair had grown long and become blonde.

Katy had a self-deprecating humor and was highly respected. Even though she was so new, Gurumayi had put her in all sorts of top executive positions – working with trustees and the board of directors -- the kind of positions that landed people in perpetual meetings and stress. But here in Ganeshpuri I saw Katy sometimes just walking around with Gurumayi as if she had plenty of leisure time. Katy was allowed to carry a small camera in the ashram and take pictures of anything she wanted. Snapshots. It was a strange sight. No one else – outside the official photography department -- was allowed to photograph anything, another new rule. Like everyone else, I liked and trusted Katy for her unaffected ways, and she always expressed a sincere warmth for me.

This morning Katy said that Gurumayi had asked her to come and give us an update on the New Yorker magazine article. We already knew something about the New Yorker article. It had started back in South Fallsburg the year before, just before I left. A journalist from the New Yorker magazine – one of the oldest and most prominent magazines in the country -- had begun visiting the South Fallsburg ashram and preparing an article about Siddha Yoga. Right from the start the journalist had raised alarm. She asked questions. The standard answers did not satisfy her. Instead of taking in all that the ashram had to offer, accepting our explanations for everything, she kept wanting to know what went on behind the scenes.

Since I was one of the heads of Registration back then, I had been put on alert. “Page Magdalena the moment the New Yorker journalist arrives,” I had been told, and there was a big flashing message in the journalist's computer record so that we wouldn't forget. The journalist was not to leave the lobby or go anywhere in the ashram without someone going with her.

By the time I was in India the New Yorker article was looming. The journalist wanted to print all sorts of rumors about Baba. We had been told the rumors, whatever they were, weren't true. The journalist was writing an article about the ashram, but I knew she couldn’t understand our practices or teachings at all. She was an outsider looking in. There was no way she could do justice to the greatness of Gurumayi and Baba. She would demean them, misrepresent them. The ashram had asked the magazine repeatedly not to print the article, but plans for publication, Katy said, were going strong.

"We have to stop this article from coming out," said Katy. "That's why you're here this morning,"...

261 comments:

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Anonymous said...

What the f*ck, MC is there ever a time you STOP b*tching about Dan and exSY?

Anonymous said...

"You carry great authority with the eXSY community. They won't read the article themselves. Heck they never read your thesis either as they admit on eXSY. Such things are too long. They rather run with the half truths you put out for them."

Dear MC,
anon is right...what IS it with you and ex-syda? what you say above is just not true..period! Dan rarely posts there, has been "corrected" and questioned at times by ex-syda folks and is treated like any other group member. The ex-syda "community" is varied....there are people who finished high school, others who didn't and still others with advanced degrees (for whatever that's worth). I'm sure very few of the ex-syda folks would have trouble reading a magazine article...or even a thesis...and may have even written a thesis or two themselves! There are occasional discussions of: MAGAZINE ARTICLES! WHOAH! and BOOKS! Holey Moley! Maybe folks just weren't interested in Dan's thesis. I'd sure be surprised if many people were interested in reading mine, to tell you the truth. who is this "they" you are always talking about? You REALLY seem caught up in categorizing, polarizing, and thinking within a very tiny box...exactly what you accuse others of...You "seem" angry and judgemental...exactly what you accuse others of; you constantly try and start fights...exactly what you accuse others of; you gratuitously insult people you don't know....look into the mirror, MC!
The other thing I will say about Dan Shaw is this: when I left syda and felt as as though my soul had been ripped right out of my body, Dan was a wonderful, compassionate friend. He didn't know me but reached out and offered help anyway. There was NO bitter accusation regarding syda or attacking of anyone...just kindness. NONE of the "friends" I had spent so much time with in syda...."high" or "low"...would so much as speak to me after I left. You can make your own judgement about this behavior but, according to what I've read (in BOOKS!!!), it's typical of "cults".

Anonymous said...

Dan's thesis topic was 'Traumatic Abuse in Cults" FYI

It's a relevant topic. Maybe worth the time to read.

Anonymous said...

Where can one find Dan Shaw's Thesis? I'd like to read it. thanks Marian

Anonymous said...

To the man fighting to uncult his family-my heart goes out to you. Work, Hope, love. Don’t give up; you never know what will cause a person to barf up the kool-aid and wake-up. Your wife sounds like many of us who drank deeply of the SYKA. There seemed to be such a heart connection that I thought I’d be dyed in SY for life. I would never have guessed the time would come when my home would not be filled with guru pictures, incense, and chanting tapes on repeat play. But it wasn’t being slapped in the face with the darkside of SY that unraveled it for me; too much of that would have surely made me dig in the heels. In fact, 6 weeks before my SY disconnect, I felt driven night and day to read SY material, especially Gurumayi’s New year’s messages-over and over (sometimes sitting up at night and writing whole paragraphs from her talks again and again); and then it just stopped (maybe I had a breakdown or SY burnout) while hearing the message of 2004. The dream evaporated just like thatlike shaking your head to clear out the fog. For all those years (14, in fact) All those years it felt as if something would move over my rational mind and override it-spending money that needed to go into my family, time and attention spend at the ashram and local center instead of with my family, etc. Something like that could happen for your loved one , especially if she seems to be more involved than ever-I don’t know. Anythings possible. But, be prepared; the real work begins upon awakening. Living life-with it’s ups and downs, joys and sorrows, laughter and tears without one’s drug of choice-be it pictures of Gurumayi, Baba, or the bliss of SY has not been easy, but, 3 years out I am so-o-o glad to still be unflocked. Gone is that gnawing kind of restlessness to go to the ashram, take Intensives, or give more money. Even while I still have dreams of SY and reminder kinds of experiences, I cannot go back to that time/do not want to go back. My mind and heart are still available to me more now dispite the SY stint or maybe because of. Like many of us I still emotionally process guilt and consternation over what I didn’t do during those years-how so much time can be eaten up in a drunken state. Being high on “God” is still being high and not as available to life. If this is all there/or if there are heavens and hells and many more lifetimes past or future, I haven’t a clue really; I just have now and I don’t want to miss out on this for the promise of enlightenment or bliss. My family means much more to me now-without the guru filter between. At least your children have two parental perspectives around them. Your love and fun times spent with them now will be with them as they continue to grow. Best wishes to you and your family!


And, Thank-you “older but wiser”-I concur. We are all and each going through our healing process in differing ways. Reading this blog-the many postings has helped me see and remember that behind the words is a fellow planet traveler, a human being with all our myriad complexities but we all have in common a heart, a mind, and we feel. May we continue to be courageous yet gentle and accepting of each others process.I want to say “I Love you” but maybe that is a little much for now so I’ll say, “In Peace.
--Unflocked Ma
Sidebar-Sidebar: Has ANYONE read the book, “Slave species of God”, by Michael Tellinger? He is out of South Africa, I believe

Anonymous said...

I found Dan Shaw's thesis. It's excellent and helpful. But of course Marta's memoirs is the dramatization of. . . How lucky I am to have found both of you. Thank you. Love, Marian

Anonymous said...

"This just in: Albert Ellis' last wife was SY devotee, and former resident of the GSP Princess Dorm (where girls who put out got baubles in their post-coital goodie bags), Debbie Joffe.

Read all about Ellis and Joffee at http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/14947/index2.html"


"What the f*ck, MC is there ever a time you STOP b*tching about Dan and exSY?"

Congratulations on your self promotion. Hardly professional behaviour. I shall report you to your professional body. They will be very interested.

Anonymous said...

The other thing I will say about Dan Shaw is this: when I left syda and felt as as though my soul had been ripped right out of my body, Dan was a wonderful, compassionate friend. He didn't know me but reached out and offered help anyway. There was NO bitter accusation regarding syda or attacking of anyone...just kindness. NONE of the "friends" I had spent so much time with in syda...."high" or "low"...would so much as speak to me after I left. You can make your own judgement about this behavior but, according to what I've read (in BOOKS!!!), it's typical of "cults".

Yes right. But now refer to previous posts. This fella is two faced and has just revealed the shadow side....

Anonymous said...

"What the f*ck, MC is there ever a time you STOP b*tching about Dan and exSY?"

Congratulations on your self promotion. Hardly professional behaviour. I shall report you to your professional body. They will be very interested.




Now while I may not agree with everything Dan says, I find that he presents his views in a respectful and thoughtful way. The flaming comment to MC above does not at all sound like Dan, anon 9:39 am. Sounds like you may mistakenly think that this is the case.

Anonymous said...

I have been reading this blog and re-reading some other SYDA bashing stuff for two days now and it brings it all back to me. I was involved back in the mid-eighties. Thanks tremendously to all who have the inner circle knowledge and who publish it. I was just a grass-roots but heard and saw enough to get turned off and leave before the NYer article spilled the beans.
I witnessed one of her temper fits once. Sheesh, what a piece of work she is!

Anonymous said...

THE FEDERAL CONNECTION - - - - - -
Is moving to exSY

Agreement has been reached that the exSY list site would be a more appropriate place for information on how to contact US federal authorities.

People interested in seeing such information should look for it there instead of here.

Information should begin posting about this over the course of the weekend and into next week and beyond.

This will be my last post to the comments section here but I'll still be reading Marta's blog avidly and lurking in the comments section to read it.

Thanks and namaskars offered to Marta for putting up with me.

Eye-4-Eye

Anonymous said...

THE FEDERAL CONNECTION - - - - - -
Is moving to exSY

Agreement has been reached that the exSY list site would be a more appropriate place for information on how to contact US federal authorities.

People interested in seeing such information should look for it there instead of here.

Information should begin posting about this over the course of the weekend and into next week and beyond.

This will be my last post to the comments section here but I'll still be reading Marta's blog avidly and lurking in the comments section to read it.

Thanks and namaskars offered to Marta for putting up with me.

Eye-4-Eye

Anonymous said...

Oops..sorry about that, Marta. That was my computer hiccuping...mouse clicker got stuck. Apologies.

Anonymous said...

Poor old Marta the crocodiles have nothing on her. sob sob.

Anonymous said...

Dear MC: will you report me to my professional organizations anonymously or will you identify yourself? Either way, please send me a copy of your report to

Daniel Shaw, LCSW
152 Main Street
Nyack, NY 10960


Also - thanks to those who have said kind words to me, here and on e-mail - I rarely hear it, and I really appreciate it!

Traumatic Abuse in Cults is at http://www.danielshawlcsw.com/essay.htm

Dan Shaw

stuartresnick said...

And I am happy to claim my own experience and of left-handed tantric manipulations.

Of course! Who can't see the benefit of blaming bad experience on some evil-doer's manipulations? It's not for nothing that "The Devil Made Me Do It!" is a cliche.

Taking responsibility for your own experience can be difficult. And no one is forcing anyone to do so; you can blame everything on manipulators for as long as you like.

There's just the *option* of examining your own thinking and behavior, rather than seeing boogeymen on the outside.

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised that more people haven't turned SY into the IRS already for raking in millions while masquerading as a non profit organization. After all, anyone that reports tax evaders to the IRS gets a portion of the taxes that have been illegally withheld. That would be a tidy sum when you're talking GM and SY. First GM will get busted, along with the board of directors for tax evasion, then the bunch of them will be thrown in federal prison to cool their heels for five or more years. This is really sounding good. The more I think about it, the more I think that reporting GM and SY to the IRS is the quickest way to get justice. The IRS will raid any institution suspected of tax evasion in a New York Minute.

What say you Eye-4N-Eye (and the rest)? Please give us the requiste contact numbers so we can get in touch with the enforcement branch of the IRS asap. They always have plenty of guns to go around, especially when it comes to tax evasion. By the time the IRS gets through with Malti, she'll be wearing a barrel behind bars.

Contact numbers please!!!

Anonymous said...

Apparently, a lot of you aren't aware of the concept of "Statute of Limitations." How does this apply to the issues raised above?

Anonymous said...

This is really sounding good. The more I think about it, the more I think that reporting GM and SY to the IRS is the quickest way to get justice. The IRS will raid any institution suspected of tax evasion in a New York Minute.

You're quite clueless. You need a case that will be won in open court, not something based on innuendo and heresay.

Just look at the Catholic Church. The Pope and his princes (Archbishops of New York, Boston, et all.) live quite a fancy lifestyle for men of the cloth, who have "renounced" everything. What about their scandals? These are more egregious, and it has taken years for any legal organization to apply any justice.

Anonymous said...

At the end of the day, just walk away. If sheep are lining up to be shorn, they might need some shearing before they learn some of life's lessons. After all, this is the way it is in the real world. If someone want's to waste their life on silly things, nobody stops them. Better yet, your energies would have a higher return if you focused on the external world, and save the people from the clutches of materialism and ambition.

Anonymous said...

There is no statute of limitations on tax cheats.

I4NI -

I will look for you at xSY yahoo groups, however I have never posted there and don't know your screen name. Also, part of the reason I've never posted there was because I don't like the format. I have some ideas that I'd like to share with those making comments here about the future of our communications with eachother. There is free forum software we can use to set up another venue for discussion that is more user friendly than the Yahoo groups thing. I would be willing to set it up if people want to join so we can share information with abit more ease. Or else the Yahoo group owner might seriously consider shifting his own Yahoo group over to the forum format so it is much easier to follow, use, comment on and keep a steady flow of conversation. Or else maybe I4NI could set up his own blog on blogger.com to share the federal contacts we will need to report SY to the proper authorities.

Please let me know what you all think of these suggestions. It would probably be best to continue those conversations over there so we don't hijack the comments section of Marta's blog with these rantings.

kalidas

Anonymous said...

"Taking responsibility for your own experience can be difficult. And no one is forcing anyone to do so; you can blame everything on manipulators for as long as you like.

There's just the *option* of examining your own thinking and behavior, rather than seeing boogeymen on the outside."

*****

On the other hand people often unjustly blame themselves for the consequences of tragedies over which they had little of no conscious control. A person has to see both sides of the coin to get the big picture. Understanding the nature of the external boogeyman assists with the introspective process and helps put things in perspective. The internal and external understanding needn’t be construed as an “either or” situation. It’s the integrated partnership of both elements that leads to what the world calls “wisdom”.

IMHO tearing back the curtain to see how the boogeyman operates is useful information.

Anonymous said...

You're quite clueless. You need a case that will be won in open court, not something based on innuendo and heresay.

________________________________

Go fuck yourself.

Anonymous said...

I've been trying to steer clear of the little skirmishes between folks here and stay focused on topic..HOWEVER, Stuart, just because you are clueless about left-handed tantra doesn't make it go away. Kind of like the joke, "The god that atheists don't believe in never existed in the first place." Your ideas about what left-handed tantra is (and is not) are most strange and out of touch with reality. read a bit of george feurstein and robert svobodha and your head may clear.

ah well. in the meantime, maybe some of us will just start skipping your pronouncements for now.

Anonymous said...

This is really sounding good. The more I think about it, the more I think that reporting GM and SY to the IRS is the quickest way to get justice. The IRS will raid any institution suspected of tax evasion in a New York Minute.

You're quite clueless. You need a case that will be won in open court, not something based on innuendo and heresay.

Hey Einstein, You're the one that's clueless. What do you think the IRS does when it conducts raids - play patty cake! They RAID the place and gather evidence. They go through all the records, bank accounts and follow the money trail. And the IRS WILL raid a place whether or not that have hard evidence. They WILL raid an organization based on rumor an innuendo. They're the IRS and they can get away with doing pretty much whatever they want. One of these days when your IQ gets above room temperature, you'll figue these no brainers out.

Anonymous said...

Or else maybe I4NI could set up his own blog on blogger.com to share the federal contacts we will need to report SY to the proper authorities.


I believe N14NI has in the works a plan to establish a blog for the purpose of the Federal Investigation information. When the idea is in place, the link will be posted on eXSY, the title/subject of the post will read clearly. The link for any Federal information will be uploaded in a folder under the 'Links' section of th that site.
Claudia's contact information for Sullivan County and New York State are already uploaded in that folder, for easy reference.

Thank you to the person doning all of the hard work on establishing the Federal protocol and links.

Anonymous said...

And the IRS WILL raid a place whether or not that have hard evidence. They WILL raid an organization based on rumor an innuendo.

You apparently haven't read the news for the last five years. The IRS has spruced up its image, and does not engage in witch hunts. You need warrants to conduct searches, something you and your pal (two posts up) can't seem to fathom. Enjoy your idiocy, the two of you.

Anonymous said...

Sorry it took so long to get back to Kalidas and others. I was out at a dinner for family and friends celebrating a birthday.

I have some responses on three posts from above:

Post # 1: "Please let me know what you all think of these suggestions. It would probably be best to continue those conversations over there so we don't hijack the comments section of Marta's blog with these rantings."

NI4NI reponds:
Brief contact I've had with Marta suggests she may be annoyed at some of the law-enforcement-related discussion going back and forth. If I hijacked her blog it was not my intention, rather, to piggyback off the wonderful momentum she got going with this blog. I agreed not to post further info here after letting everyone know to look for the federal contact info at exSY. The site owner at exSY graciously will allow me to post it there. I have a busy saturday coming up and probably won't get to posting this contact info until sometime on Sunday. Look for info to start getting posted on exSY on how to contact federal authorities sometime this coming Sunday. I will still use "THE FEDERAL CONNECTION" as my post heading there. You'll see my nickname there pretty easily. After all, MC already figured me out!

Post # 2: "I believe N14NI has in the works a plan to establish a blog for the purpose of the Federal Investigation information. When the idea is in place, the link will be posted on eXSY, the title/subject of the post will read clearly. The link for any Federal information will be uploaded in a folder under the 'Links' section of th that site."

NI4NI's response:
Incorrect, I have no plans to set up a blog of my own at the moment, I simply don't have time in my busy life to manage a blog for the foreseeable future. I'm too damned busy commuting back & forth between DC and its outer burbs for hours every day then recuperating on weekends, to even dream of managing a blog of my own. This is why, for the moment, exSY will have to serve as the going-forward home for the federal contact information. The last thing I want to do is upset Marta and I may have already done so. Basically, anybody who wants to touch base with me on this subject ought to sign up at exSY and talk to me there.

That's all for now. I am content to do as Marta asks. To honor her wishes, I won't post anymore here about the federal contacts. Please look for that at exSY over the next several days to two weeks.

As for progres, I am making progress with IRS-CI (criminal investigations), US Customs and Border Protection (CBP), and with FBI. But it is initial progress only. More work remains to be done.

Best to all who are with me, and even those who aren't.

My final post posting here under the name NI4NI,
NI4NI

Anonymous said...

Oh, one last thing:

"They're the IRS and they can get away with doing pretty much whatever they want."

Eye's response:
NO S**T. Try dealing with them from the INSIDE of government.

They're an 800-pound gorilla and they KNOW it! So many rules we try to set up or hoops for them to jump through, and they just keep pushing back and getting away with it when nobody else does. They can be VERY frustrating to work with. They really like to throw their weight around, even internally within government. Whatta bear they are.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad that Marta was not pleased about the call to arms. I feel that Marta's memoir goes beyond this particular Gurumaya and this particular cult to the universal yearning for finding meaning & truth in the world. I interpret Marta's memoir that she is showing by example that this tenacious need for truth needn't by deadened if met with derision and false claims but can find its way in other directions such as what she has found: CREATIVITY. Dom't give up is what she is telling me. Don't become hardened. Keep that precious yearning for truth alive. Maybe it's all in the SEEKING. That's the gift that Marta has given me not go get em. I never was but once in SYda Yoga but for an evening of meditation on 86th street. I didn't feel right there so I never went back. But I've been in a cult-like experience for over 10 years which started in the mid 70's so I feel I have a right to join in and say my peace here. As ever, Marian

Anonymous said...

Ooops.

It seems that Marta's blog has found its way in the Siddha Suckers Forum in tribes.net

Check out:

tribes.tribe.net/32ef6225-f03b-4bd5-afe5-8e2c89c1e1b0
to see what the response has been so far.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad that Marta was not pleased about the call to arms. I feel that Marta's memoir goes beyond this particular Gurumaya and this particular cult to the universal yearning for finding meaning & truth in the world. I interpret Marta's memoir that she is showing by example that this tenacious need for truth needn't by deadened if met with derision and false claims but can find its way in other directions such as what she has found: CREATIVITY. Dom't give up is what she is telling me. Don't become hardened. Keep that precious yearning for truth alive. Maybe it's all in the SEEKING. That's the gift that Marta has given me not go get em. I never was but once in SYda Yoga but for an evening of meditation on 86th street. I didn't feel right there so I never went back. But I've been in a cult-like experience for over 10 years which started in the mid 70's so I feel I have a right to join in and say my peace here. As ever, Marian


Marian/Mariam, is that you? Unless some has read the ex-SY boards for years on end, with special attention to detail, they may have missed this opportunity to say hello.

As was once said: "As long as you play your part well on the Net, who cares if you are a SY swami."

Really, how was it when Gurumayi "waved you to the side" in the left handed tantric "Rudram" video from GSP (which I know consider the letters to represent: "guru's sick penis") After all, the one buried there was the one who infected countless femalse with his "sick penis", leaving them with high fevers and infections,

Mariam, if this really is you, you "really" do know how to "play your part well"

Anonymous said...

Re:

"Congratulations on your self promotion. Hardly professional behaviour. I shall report you to your professional body. They will be very interested."

and

"Dear MC: will you report me to my professional organizations anonymously or will you identify yourself? Either way, please send me a copy of your report to

Daniel Shaw, LCSW
152 Main Street
Nyack, NY 10960"

end quote ***********

Dan,

Your mind is playing tricks on you. Otherwise known as paranoia. I did not make the above post.

I initial my posts, except forgot to when I posted that your thesis would be worth reading.

I am not a troll or 'sock puppet'
More like your frenemy at this point. I do respect you, but take issue with your perspectives. I think you have limited your own professional development by sticking with this concept of 'cult' Sort of like if all you have is a hammer, everything will look like a nail.

*********************************
I found this post helpful from unflocked ma.

"interpret Marta's memoir that she is showing by example that this tenacious need for truth needn't by deadened if met with derision and false claims but can find its way in other directions such as what she has found: CREATIVITY."

end quote

This point is essential to those working through the mire of sy. Creative outlets. Why did Blogwhalla, now Eye 4N Eye, now NI4NI carry on so about Blogananda 'stealing' his name, here and on eXSY? Because he is STARVED for a creative outlet.

Instead he is spending his creative juices on what? Getting all litigious on syda.

Especially silly is the accusation of smuggling. It's a commonality for people affiliated with non profits travelling overseas to bring what you can't get there. Completely normal.

*****************8
Thank you unflocked ma for your post to BW/NI4NI about his family.

Your description fits any obsession that takes us away from the reality of the present. You conveyed my experience of dropping sy very well. Thank you.

Made a note to myself to look for Tellinger book when you first mentioned it. Haven't had a chance.

3000 miles from where I was this am. Keeping you all in my thoughts.

No ill will towards anyone. Knew most of you and loved you.

MC

Anonymous said...

"Mariam if this is really you...."It's really me, Marian, a long time friend of Marta's husband. I only met Marta about 10 years ago. Who would have thought when she and Fred were having bagels at my apt for breakfast that all this was stirring inside. As ever, Marian

Anonymous said...

MC - you said: "I think you have limited your own professional development by sticking with this concept of 'cult' Sort of like if all you have is a hammer, everything will look like a nail."

You make judgements of me and others behind your anonymous mask - I'm afraid I can't fully trust what anyone says to me when they insist on being anonymous.

Nevertheless, what you say above has some validity, and for the reasons you state and many others, I tend to avoid the word cult these days.

So rather than say that SY is a cult, I would say that it is a group led by a psychopathic, dishonest, irresponsible and abusive person;

and that the dynamics in the group tend to flow from the leader,

i.e.: the closer in the group one gets to the leader, the more one tends to function as the leader does, in a world of domination and submission, characterized by interpersonal interactions based on intimidation, belittling and humiliation as the chief means for the leader to maintain control over the followers.

And I would characterize this group, in spite of all the other things one might observe about it, as built on a foundation of deception and lack of accountability.

I would also say that this group deceives and exploits its members, and that it exercies undue influence over and makes extreme demands of its membership.

Finally, I would say that Siddha Yoga is authoritarian, and structured along the lines of a dictatorship, and that the absolute power assigned to the leader has profoundly corrupted her, her leadership, and the group itself.

So the word cult doesn't ever have to be used here, from my point of view. I prefer to describe the behavior of the leader and the group, rather than call it a name.

Dan Shaw

Anonymous said...

Ooops.

It seems that Marta's blog has found its way in the Siddha Suckers Forum in tribes.net

Check out:

tribes.tribe.net/32ef6225-f03b-4bd5-afe5-8e2c89c1e1b0
to see what the response has been so far.


A curious phenomenon. The moderator of the above group used to be the "list owner" of a prior incarnation of ExSY at yahoo groups. It was called SY Talk or something. I think she was run off by the tribal ExSY types, as she didn't conform to the majority, and current, thought process.

Anonymous said...

I was a long timer GSP and South Fallsburg wallah and department head. I have seen many building managers. The few times I met with Marta I was struck at how genuine she was.

On the other hand, many of the other managers paraded in were quite inexperienced and over their heads. Ganapati was quite experienced however he liked to be known as being `decisive'. His secretary was visibly afraid of him. Dealing with Ganapati was basically a drag. He particularily liked to be the one who said no. Such a need he had to be in authority.

Anonymous said...

When the staff was rushed into the downstairs hall in South Fallsburg(I forget the name of the hall) regarding announcing that the New Yorker article had come out, the feeling was very intense. The tour was away, just us SF wallahs.

The head of PR, K whatever, was literally CHOKING getting the words out about the article and how untrue it was. Instead of smiling and (overyly) enjoying the fact that she was in the front talking like she normally did, this time she was full of fear. At one point, I think it was swami Vasu.... grabbed the mic from her and continued on. Telling us we COULD read the article, but advised us not to, not to diminish our shakti.

Anonymous said...

A curious phenomenon. The moderator of the above group used to be the "list owner" of a prior incarnation of ExSY at yahoo groups. It was called SY Talk or something. I think she was run off by the tribal ExSY types, as she didn't conform to the majority, and current, thought process.



Don't know for sure who you are talking about, but two females who used to be in the Boston community crashed and burned, took down one former list. One had an on-line and real life affair with a list member. It did not go well in the end, and everyone on the list was thrown overboard when the list crashed, due to poor life choices made by owners.

People who knew this duo in Boston, have not had favorable reports of their conduct while in SY, and after leaving (if they ever really did?)

If this is who has set-up the site, please use the phrase:
Buyer beware

Anonymous said...

A curious phenomenon. The moderator of the above group used to be the "list owner" of a prior incarnation of ExSY at yahoo groups. It was called SY Talk or something. I think she was run off by the tribal ExSY types, as she didn't conform to the majority, and current, thought process.
August 4, 2007 10:23 AM

Actually you are wrong. What killed the Group was a personal relationship with another group member that went bad. She felt uncomfortable with the situation. There was an attempt to salvage the Group but in the end it was best to call it quits.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the New Yorker article Vasudevananda explained to a satsang group at the Montreux-Retreat in 1997: "Some people can't bear the light others live in." He also said any genuine movement or master, like Jesus Christ, naturally draws enemies.
I still wonder if he believed what he said.

Carolin

Anonymous said...

A slight correction to my post to MC: I emphatically DO NOT agree that my view of SY has "limited my professional development." MC doesn't have a clue about the ongoing progress of my professional development; it is entirely fallacious to base judgement of me as a professional solely on my participation in discussions of SY, without knowing the slightest thing about my actual professional career, which has really nothing to do with SY.

What I did agree with is that callng SY a cult just puts a label on it, and fails to capture more descriptively what really goes on there. Marta's memoir brilliantly and incisively captures what goes on there, and I don't believe she's yet used the word cult once.

Dan Shaw

Anonymous said...

I lived in the ashram for over 13 years. I was 38 years old when I went, I left a good career, family relationships and friends to go because I wanted to understand life and be free of dependency on others for my sense of security. I wanted to love myself, to really know myself.

I experienced I am sure the range of events and emotions and encounters that everyone else did who spent years in the ashrams in GSP and SF. I knew and did seva with "inner circle" people and came close a couple of times to that realm but was not comfortable there -- I left the ashram by choice in 2002 and have processed a lot since leaving. For years I've been reading the sites on the Internet, leaving sy, etc. I read the New Yorker article when it came out.

Through all my processing of bitterness and anger, etc., I've been unable to forget that I was there by choice, no one ever forced me to stay. I inherited considerable sums of money twice in Siddha Yoga, I told Gurumayi exactly how much, and nobody ever approached me for a dime.

I don't consider myself anybody's victim.

After having thought a lot about my years in the ashram, what I know for sure is that I experience, constantly, love, peace and strength as a result of my stay there and my relationship with Gurumayi. While I went through some truly harrowing experiences I relished every minute of it -- it was a fabulous experience, truly amazing. And I love all the people I met during those years -- all.

I received what I went to the ashram for. I respect Gurumayi and am grateful to her. I gained so much from her and my years on staff.

Wishing the best to all -
Terry

Anonymous said...

I know what you mean in this comment....I have no interest in living as a victim either and I'm well aware that personally I chose all my years there...but I would say there is much power in living in the contradiction...knowing that much good personally came to me from my years and at the same time this was an utterly corrupt path filled with lies and deception.

I reconcile the paradox by believing that if you have a pure heart that genuinely wants to know god you can do it anywhere...the shakti is so magnanimous...so to my mind the shakti saw my longing and my karma was to figure out some fundamental things and grow internally in syda...

but this does not make me pretend that this was a pure path with an enlightened master at its helm! If you have great longing you can attain the truth from a cashier at Target...and in some ways it might have been less byzantine to do so!

Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if those 15 years had been at the feet of a true master and not the toxic mimic we all got. But hey, I do relate to what terry said...if for whatever reason my personal karma was to get the fake cheese instead of the real it did seem to do good anyway for me personally...

but i am very sorry for all those I brought to the path in my messianic zeal...i feel the path was not what it pretended to be and this is sad and pathetic. i remember bringing a male friend there once at the height of my involvement. I'll never forget what he said, leaving in the middle of a big evening program with Gurumayi. "You think this is a path of light but it is filled with darkness. There is something VERY wrong here. I don't understand these things well but I feel as if someone is using black magic." He ran out the door and actually dropped our friendship after that. At the time i had no idea what he was talking about. Now I know.

i'll never rely on someone else for again for what was inside all along! i look back now on syda as the land of insane fairy tales!

Anonymous said...

Terry's comments reminded me of a very wealthy man I know. He said to me recently, "I don't know why everyone is so upset with Bush about Iraq, the environment, civil rights, all that. My investments are doing great! Life is GOOD!"

Anonymous said...

Thank you for posting, Terry. I'm glad you had a good experience serving on staff with SYDA. I just wanted to clarify a few things that you wrote:

"I wanted to understand life and be free of dependency on others for my sense of security."

Is this something you felt that you were doing while living in the Ashram? Were your goals truly accomplished? Did you really feel you weren't "dependent" on the Guru and the SYDA Foundation while you were living there - emotionally, physically, and financially? Because you were. Even if you inherited some money - I doubt you paid rent, insurance, etc. The insulated social environment of the Ashram certainly provided you with a false sense of emotional security as well.

"I knew and did seva with "inner circle" people and came close a couple of times to that realm but was not comfortable there -- I left the ashram by choice in 2002 and have processed a lot since leaving. For years I've been reading the sites on the Internet, leaving sy, etc. I read the New Yorker article when it came out."

Why weren't you comfortable in that "inner-circle" scene? What aren't you telling us? What have you "processed" since leaving the Ashram? Why read such interent sites if you are truly as grateful for the Guru as you proclaim? It sounds as though you are harboring your own doubts about your experiences while on staff...

"Through all my processing of bitterness and anger, etc., I've been unable to forget that I was there by choice, no one ever forced me to stay. I inherited considerable sums of money twice in Siddha Yoga, I told Gurumayi exactly how much, and nobody ever approached me for a dime."

Why are you bitter and angry? Why would an "independent" woman tell the Guru the exact amounts of money she inherits? It's great that GM never asked you for any of it, but it is still telling about the unhealthy nature of your relationship that you felt compelled to discuss those matters with (ultimately) an absolute stranger who effectively claimed some sort of authoritative sway over you.

Terry, I feel as though the tone of your memo is conflicted and is leaving a lot of things out. It doesn't sound like you have processed a lot at all. You sound contradictory: on one hand, you have respect for Gurumayi; on the other, you are "bitter" and "angry" for unspecified reasons. Why are you censoring yourself? Why don't you really "process" this stuff once and for all?

I agree that it is important to not hide from responsibility by adopting a victim mentality. But I think it is also important to recognize that a lot of geuine and earnest seekers (yourself and myself included) in the Ashram were being duped and manipulated through sophisticated means. It's okay to be angry about that.

Asterisk

Anonymous said...

Anon said: "Terry's comments reminded me of a very wealthy man I know. He said to me recently, "I don't know why everyone is so upset with Bush about Iraq, the environment, civil rights, all that. My investments are doing great! Life is GOOD!"

Thanks for saying the above. I want to respect everyone's right to think about their SY experience in whatever way makes sense to them.

But I do find it difficult to respect people who say "that wasn't my experience" when they hear about pedophilia, and other criminal and ethical offenses committed by SY leaders.

I find it hard to imagine what the parents of underage girls Muktananda seduced say to themselves about their complicity in allowing it to happen. Do they have any sense of the damage that was done to their own daughters? The damage they as parents did by looking the other way?

I find it hard to understand what people who were directed to harass and attack Gurumayi's brother say to themselves about that, as they continue to "honor" their SY experience. Where is the "honor" in what Gurumayi directed her followers to do to her brother?

Obviously, everyone has a right to process in the way they choose to. But with a lot of people, it does sound as if they are saying the classic British phrase, "I'm alright, Jack, screw you." Meaning, 'I've got mine, what do I care?' Is THAT attitude a sign of spiritual attainment? Not as I see it.

Dan Shaw

Anonymous said...

Dan, at the risk of sounding pedantic, the phrase is 'I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up'.

Best wishes Luke

What's up said...

Folks, SY is a cult. Current members of that group would never agree and many departed members may have a tough time admitting it.

I know the word has many negative connotations and is "bad" word for those in non-traditional spiritual groups. Hey, I was in one such spiritual group myself.

The actuality is that all spiritual groups and world religions are cults. That is the true appropriate term for such groups. Cult is short for culture. All religions and spiritual groups are, in greater or lesser degrees, cultures of their own belief systems, group dynamics, styles of dress, terminologies, even music...

You may describe SY as a negative cult or a positive cult. That is undoubtedly a legitimate perspective for each to make. But, please do not pull the wool over any eyes, especially your own, SY is a cult.

Anonymous said...

Luke said: 'Dan, at the risk of sounding pedantic, the phrase is 'I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up'.

Best wishes Luke"



Dear Luke:

Rule, Brittania!
Thanks-

Dan Shaw

Anonymous said...

What an extraordinary list of comments!

This is one for Marta (remember her?).
Well done - while the details differ, (many of the names and faces are the same) I feel like you could be telling the story of my own emotional involvement. I have been referring people to your blog to help explain where I was for so many years.

stuartresnick said...

You have no working knowledge of or experience of left-handed tantra

Certainly, there are various ways to influence other people, what's commonly known as "charisma" etc. Gurumayi or any guru may have such talent, and it may increase or decrease over time and sitiation.

But whether or not you're affected by a guru's (or anyone's) charisma has a lot to do with your own mind. Depending upon what wants a person holds, they get "trapped" by whatever leader or guru is feeding those wants.

If you felt Gurumayi's "energy" one time but then years later didn't feel it, it may well mean that life experience or problems made Gurumayi less charismatic. Or it could mean that you yourself have changed, and are no longer "hooked" by what you once were.

Using terms like "left-handed Tantra" I believe suggests the idea that the Guru has magical powers beyond simple charisma, powers that aren't linked to our own wants. That's what I don't believe in.

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Hello Marta. You may not remember me but I was there too. And I also saw some of the things you saw and experienced. But my time actually led to growth and real change. I am a better person for my time in Siddha Yoga. One blogger noted that the real sign of a beneficial influence on your life is whether you are more loving, kinder, more open to life. I can say that I am due to Gurumayi's direct teachings and the spiritual practices that I still perform to this day. Hope it all works out for you. I only wish you happiness and the stillness within that you so eagerly sought.
Miles

stuartresnick said...

Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if those 15 years had been at the feet of a true master and not the toxic mimic we all got.

A different possible viewpoint is to emphasize how we keep our own mind and our own actions. From that perspective, it's not so important who we're "at the feet" of. If we decide for ourselves to put down "I/my/me" and help others, then that creates one type of life; if we decide to cultivate "I want to get something," that also has a result.

One blogger noted that the real sign of a beneficial influence on your life is whether you are more loving, kinder, more open to life. I can say that I am due to Gurumayi's direct teachings and the spiritual practices that I still perform to this day.

I'm always leary of people who claim to be particularly loving and kind. If you really intend to help others, it will automatically be demonstrated in your actions. It generally isn't necessary to make claims about how loving and kind you are... unless there's a hidden agenda.

Maybe I'm nit-picking. Surely there are people who spent time in the ashram and simply sincerely like the changes it brought in their lives. But I find it creepy whenever someone is too sure of their attainment.

So I've come to enjoy the company of people who ask "What is Truth?" over those who claim "I know the Truth!" and those who ask "How can I help?" over those who claim "I know I'm more loving and kind."

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much, dear Marta, for publishing your invaluable memories, especially when confronted by the ashram. You are doing a very active service to people, and help me a lot.

So funny how Gurumayi tried everything to stop the "infamous" New Yorker article to come out :-) . Why didn't her holiness stop it by her own power? :-) That she even thought of it as minor to some Reiki session! Very illuminating. What a laugh. By the way, I heard swamis speak derisively about that healing system.
What terrible fear and bad conscience stands behind making a sure a journalist is never on her own in the ashram!

Anonymous said...

Absolutely Stuart! I couldn't agree with you more on this one. The pronouncements, even well-intentioned, about what a "good person" Gurumayi has "made" someone are always suspect to me too.

But Miles' comment was also interesting because it made me think of all the things that have "improved" my character this life without a doubt: illnesses, bouts of financial restriction, relationships ending, pets dying, suffering of all sorts. That doesn't make those events "good." But they were useful. And in her own nutty, rather deceptive way, so was the "guru."

Anonymous said...

A bit condescending Stuart, don't you think. What makes you think I am sure of my attainment and don't also ask myself "How can I help?" everyday. Something about acknowledging that you've actually learned something in life uncomfortable for you? You're not the only who wore a lungi in India in the 70's My point here is that I actually agree with you about the importance of how we keep our mind and actions. Marta's mind at that time was focused on jealousy and guilt and the hoo-hah of being given positions and working her way into what she calls "the inner circle." I appreciate her courage and candor. And, as you so aptly state, you get what you put your energy into. There is that little thing called responsibility in one's own life. That is why her writing, while technically skilled and even compelling to those who were there at the time, doesn't show much depth of understanding or evidence of an evolving inner life. It does make for great reading, however, if you like that kind of thing. It's called in the eye of the beholder.
Miles

Anonymous said...

Miles, With all due respect you are not reading Marta's work very carefully. It is abundantly clear that she was not angling for fancy sevas. But, as you say, it's all in the eye of the beholder.
Kailas

Anonymous said...

Really captivating! Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Dearest Marta,
You are engraving jewels onto a golden tablet. Those that cannot see, are not really looking. Perhaps their morning tea is tainted with bitter juices of anger from within a bitter heart. Your tea is sweet, your heart is pure, your jewels are flowing, so let them.

Anonymous said...

Hey MC

Dan is not speaking "half truths".

The Behaviorists know too well the power of the media. Check it out for yourself. Role Models, Imitation.......

The New York Magazine article......who really care what slant they care to offer ??? ... (for those in doubt, please check out: "Propaganda").

Debbie Joffe Ellis WAS living in Muktananda's "Princess Dorm" in 1982 (prior to his death).

Go figure, MC.

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